Question about CM vs. classical

[tbarr12]

I have posted a couple times, and am in the process of trying to decide between MFW and HOD (specifically CTC). I am leaning toward CTC. I have a basic question about the difference between CM style education, and classical. I lean towards liking Classical, but I know MFW is a combination of CM and classical. Can someone tell me in a nutshell what the differences are. Are they major, in your view? Thank you.

[MamaPajama]

There are a lot of similarities between the two. I would recommend reading The Charlotte Mason Companion by Karen Andreola and The Well-Trained Mind by Jessie Wise and Susan Wise Bauer, but it sounds like you don't have a lot of time for that if you want to make a decision now. My quick response is that CM promoted a more literature and nature based approach, living books, copy work, narration, dictation, etc. Classical Education also promotes a lot of reading, but I would say there is more busy work involved, more workbooks, etc.

As you can see from my siggie, we switched from MFW to HOD, and a lot of the ladies here did the same. But that doesn't mean that's the best thing for your family. Have you researched both curricula thoroughly? HOD is definitely more CM. MFW boasts the perfect balance of CM, Classical Ed., and unit studies. I think both can be great, but it all depends on what works best with your teaching style and your children's learning styles.

HTH!

[tbarr12]

Well, I have used MFW for several years, so I feel very familiar with that! I am new to HOD. I've been reading the catalog for several weeks, and reading these boards avidly, as well as reviews on-line. I also have a general idea of what CM is - I did a lot of research on that early on in my homeschooling days. I just wanted to hear from people familiar with HOD what their take on the difference between the 2 types would be.

[DHT1999]

This topic comes up quite frequently. You may want to do a search and find multiple posts as you consider the CM/Classical relationship. Here is one thread that may be helpful to you: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2453

[MamaPajama]

Well, I have used MFW for several years, so I feel very familiar with that! I am new to HOD. I've been reading the catalog for several weeks, and reading these boards avidly, as well as reviews on-line. I also have a general idea of what CM is - I did a lot of research on that early on in my homeschooling days. I just wanted to hear from people familiar with HOD what their take on the difference between the 2 types would be.

Oh I see. I've done a lot of research on the styles themselves, but due to the ages of my kids I can't say I have a lot of personal experience with these specific curricula. Hopefully you'll get the answers you need.

[lmercon]

Here is a great old post that may help answer your question. Scroll down to read Carrie's really great summary of classical vs. CM.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2453&p=18258&hilit=classical#p18258

hth,
Laura

OOPS! Just saw that this was already posted. Sorry!

[juliekay]

I just wanted to hear from people familiar with HOD what their take on the difference between the 2 types would be.

I have never used MFW, but this will be our 3rd year with HOD. If you are familiar with the CM and Classical style I would say that HOD is largely CM, but with a twist of traditional to which reflects classical. In my opinion, the classical style = Latin or at least Latin-root study and lots of rote memorization in the grammar stage (elementary). All curriculum will require some type of rote memory work i.e. math facts and grammar facts; however, HOD is unique as it follows an educational plan that easily incorporates Christ first. It also seems to weave the history, story-time, projects, etc. together in a way that makes it very applicable to your child at their given age. Honestly, just try it. Borrow or purchase some books and try the first week, even it you just try the history, storytime, and projects. You will amazed to how much you and your children will love to learn!

[birchbark]

I came from a more classical perspective too. There is enough of an overlap between classical and CM that I wanted to research HoD because I had heard such raves about it! As it turns out, as I tried HoD this year and read Carrie's explanations on various threads, my appreciation for CM has greatly increased. There is an article on the Well Trained Mind site that compares classical and CM as well, and what they highlight there as the greatest difference is how CM prefers to delay formal grammar and writing. But here HoD diverges some from CM and introduces grammar (gently) at an earlier age. (See this post.) I am very happy with this!

I think one of the differences you'll see between MFW and HoD is that HoD really makes an effort to use living books while MFW uses more encylopedic, fact-type books (in addition to living books).

[DHT1999]

I just wanted to hear from people familiar with HOD what their take on the difference between the 2 types would be.

I have used MFW K, First Grade, Adventures and some of Exploring Countries and Cultures. I'm also very familiar with the other programs, having looked them over very thoroughly including buying and selling two other programs in addition to the ones that I have used.

This was our first year with HOD. It is a better fit for our family. I love it.

There are alot of similiarities between CM and Classical. Charlotte herself was classically trained.

One difference is that a CM approach encourages the children to "dwell" on their school books. The teacher encourages the child to "form relations" (relationships) with persons and events through the books that they read and it is expected that the child best does that when the books are not rushed through, but, rather, are savored. The books themselves then take on a very high level of importance. Not just any book on any given topic will do. With HOD, you will find that the books are of a very high-quality (in my opinion). They are chosen among other options because they lend themselves to the kind of study that Charlotte advocated. Of course, they are also chosen because they are affirming to the child's faith or are especially God-honoring or inspiring.

That quality of being "inspiring" is what I thought was lacking with the books that we used with MFW. I am not bashing the curriculum. I think it is a wonderful program and I love how MFW, like HOD, focuses on the Lord and the Bible. But, I much prefer HOD's book selections because they, in my opinion, are more compatible with Charlotte's methods. They are more narrative, more story-like and the flow is not as "choppy". I have found that my children do much better with their narrations with these type of books.

So, that's one of the things that I love about HOD and the CM approach that I think is quite different than the "classical" approach.

[Carrie]

This is a terrific discussion, ladies! I thoroughly enjoyed reading it! What wonderful insights you have.

Thanks for sharing!

Blessings,
Carrie

[sw1ssm1ss]

I wanted to add something that I didn't see mentioned yet--classical education (as I understand it) teaches children according to the Trivium: first, the grammar stage, then dialectic, then rhetoric. This was used by ancient Greeks and Romans. The theory is that from K-6th grade or so, kids are very skillful at memorizing, so fill their brains with facts. They may not understand all the "why's," but if they know that Columbus sailed to America (okay, the Caribbean ) in 1492, it will benefit them later. If they memorize their skip counting tables using cute songs, it will make multiplication a snap.

The dialectic stage happens roughly in middle school. They like to debate with authority figures (even pointlessly!) and they do not want to memorize just for the sake of it. This is all reflecting their changing brain. This is a great time to study logic.

The rhetoric stage is approximately corresponding with high school. Once they have taken in information (grammar stage) and learned how to think logically, they want to express themselves. That's why high school poetry and creative writing is often much more sophisticated than it is in middle school.

I don't honestly see that classical education necessarily correlates to busy work or workbooks. We did a classical education co-op this year in tandem with using LHFHG and there were NO worksheets for the little guys. They hardly touched a pencil, unless it was for art. It was oral memorization and experiential, hands-on art and science. Music was some listening, some playing of instruments. I enjoyed it, but it was also exhausting to do two curricula at the same time! Another year of that? Eh. There was no way I was going to give up HoD, which had really worked its way into our hearts. So we're not continuing with the co-op, but we may toss in some memorization or get a slooow start with Latin as an add-on to Beyond.