O/T Neighborhood kids

[MamaPajama]

I know this is totally off-topic, but I was curious if I could gain some insight from you all on how you handle neighborhood kids. We have several kids in the neighborhood that are nice as can be, but there are two in particular, a brother and sister, that we've had a lot of problems with. The brother is a year older than my DS and has physically and emotionally bullied him when nobody's looking (or he thinks nobody is) and is manipulative, and the little sister is between my two oldests' ages and is very selfish with her things and temperamental. Both are just plain mean to my kids most of the time and 99% of the time their play ends in tears on my kids' part, and yet they keep coming back to play and my kids keep giving them the benefit of the doubt.

DH and I have now made a rule that our kids are only allowed to play with them at our house under our direct supervision, but it doesn't stop the bad behavior. Of course we stop it when we see it, but it just happens over and over again. The lesson is never learned. And now my DS has started displaying some bully behavior with his little sister that I'm sure has been picked up from being bullied himself.

I've told my DH it's reached the point now that they are bad influences on our kids, and I would rather our kids not play with them at all. In fact, my son asked me this morning, "Do we HAVE to play with C and E if they come down today?", to which I, of course, responded no. But DH is concerned about bad blood between neighbors and he feels that our kids need to learn to stick up for themselves. I certainly do not want issues with the neighbors either, and I've already had one talk with the father of the kids once about this behavior (he promised it would never happen again), but I do not feel our kids are old or mature enough at 6 and 4 to stick up for themselves. That's part of the reason I'm drawn to HSing, because I want to have time to guide them in life within the hedge of my protection until they are old enough to take on the world themselves, not just throw them in head first. After all, we don't allow that kind of behavior in our own home, so why would we allow outside influences in to do that?

Anyway, any advice?

[MomtoJGJE]

oh we have some kids like that in our neighborhood... luckily they are public schooled kids whose parents both work and have overextended the kids to teh point that we might see them twice a week.... but we don't typically invite them over... when the kids get together we remind our children that they must be nice to their sisters and protect their sisters and they must play together, other words no separating 1:1... We remind our kids of our house rules and when a house rule is broken we firmly address it... I have no qualms about sending other kids home if I don't like them either

[Candice]

I don't have a ton of patience for kids that are disruptive, rude, misbehaving, especially in my home with my kids. I have personally ended a friendship because the kids just could not be polite and I didn't think it was worth the effort to try and keep it going.

If you want to continue having them play with your kids, then I would suggest calling a meeting of sorts in your home with these kids and yours, and clearly explain that we treat each other with respect always, in actions and words. Share with them the rules of your house.
If the rules are broken then the children are not welcome to play and they need to go home.
I'm thinking if they have the boundaries clearly defined, they might think about their actions first.

Candice

[jenntracy]

If it was me, i would not allow them to play with them. i understand about sticking up for yourself but it also doesn't mean letting people walk all over you. Like you said i wouldn't feel my children were able to stick up for themselves at that age either. It is the "parents" job to protect their children while allowing them to grow into mature adults.
If your children don't want to play with them , then like you said they can say "no" to them.
While we want to be neighborly, you aren't doing harm to your neighbors by not allowing your children to play with them and you have already spoken to the parents at least once.
If your neighbors are tifted (sp) by it then that is something they need to deal with and maybe need more of Jesus.

ok off my soapbox.

Jenn

[momofgreatones]

When I have had situations like that, I have realized that I can't worry too much about trying to balance neighbor's feelings with protecting my kids. Protecting my children is my primary responsibility and if that means cutting off a neighbor child's influence then so be it. I would just kindly tell the children when they come to your door that your dc can't play. After a few times of asking they will probably stop. Hopefully these children have other children to play with and it won't be something they will become upset over. If the parents mention it to you I'd just tell them that you are cutting back on playtime for your dc. If they are upset, oh well. Nothing is worth teaching your dc bad habits. You can't please everybody all of the time. You are right that they are too young to "stick up" for themselves. 6 and 4 are hardly more than babies!

This is how I deal with these types of situations. Best of luck to you!

[Benelli]

We also have neighborhood kids that we need to have boundaries with for our kids. Some they are only allowed to play with at our home, as their own homes are very permissive with what the children watch or do on the computer. Some who are allowed only here must be reminded of our house rules often, and I have had to send them home for disrespecting me. We can't allow children who come to our homes to be able to disregard our rules, otherwise, what does that say to our own dear children who must abide by them? One little boy will come into my home, state what he would like to do, and when I tell him, for instance, that we do not play our video games at all except weekends, he will say, "My Mom said I can, so I want to right now." I have to become firm with him and remind him that he must follow our house rules if he would like to play with my children. Some kids just don't come back after I "lay down the law", some do fine once they know what I expect from them if they want to play here.

If my kids were ever to not WANT to play with them, I would not make them. It hasn't come to that here yet, but if it did, I feel like it is my job to protect my kids and help them to understand that while we must try to love our neighbors and be good witnesses for Jesus, we do not have to tolerate abusive or disrespectful friends. I also would have no problem with stopping my kids from playing with a child who I feel is a destructive influence in their lives. We still must guide our children, and if you feel that they would be better off to not have a child influencing them in something that your family feels very strongly against, then cutting of contact with that child is just fine. Just be gentle about it and pray for wisdom with your words.

Sometimes I feel it would be much easier to live off on our own on a farm instead of in a neighborhood... Maybe one day...

[MamaPajama]

We are also fortunate enough that these children are in public school and sports, and in the summers they are in daycare 8-5/M-F. (I feel terrible saying that we are fortunate in that way, because for them I feel it is very unfortunate and quite possibly the source of their behavior problems, but given their nature I consider it a personal blessing.) There is more to the story too. On one occasion they came down to play, and without even discussing it with me their mother left to go grocery shopping. On several occasions their little girl has come down here just to ask MY DH to fix her training wheels, or ask me for a Band-Aid when she was bleeding, or sunscreen, etc. I don't mind helping out but that's just ridiculous! Their father seems very nice, and I can't really read the mother, but I just can't fathom what on earth they are thinking.

I think you all have given me some really good advice, and I thank you! The next time they come down I plan to sit them down straight away and explain our rules to them kindly and calmly. If they still don't listen, then we will just simply say that they aren't welcome to play with our children anymore until they can learn manners and good behavior.

I can SO relate to the farm comment! I always joke that I could live on a commune with like-minded folks, and just the other day DH said my commune idea wasn't sounding so bad. Too bad it's completely unrealistic.

Oh, and regarding my DH's comment about them sticking up for themselves...he grew up in a pretty rough area and he told me just this morning that beginning in 1st grade there were already "race wars" going on in the playground. Therefore he had no choice but to learn to protect himself. Thankfully our kids DO have the choice, and their parents' watchful eye. Thank God for the right to homeschool!!!!

[crlacey]

My Dad has a saying that everyone who has come on to his property knows. "My house, my rules"

And he has enforced this with everyone including my uncles. As an adult, I'm able to see that it was great having the same consistent rules no matter who it was. My parents have had to ask people to leave who would not abide by the rules and I'm sure it was tough to ask some of them to leave. But it was great for us kids to see that Dad meant business and wouldn't bend just to make others happy. Even my kids understand that "Papa" means business and that he's not being mean, but most of the time is looking out for their safety with his rules. (My parents live on a farm.)

Even now, when we go to help at their house it's always, "My house, my rules, my way of doing it." And my Dad will tell DH when helping at our house that it's "DhHs house, DH's rules and DH's way of doing the job."

I guess my point is that it's a great way to show your children consistency in the rules. Just explain to these children they are welcome to play if they abide by the rules. If not, they will be asked to leave. And then enforce it.

[MamaPajama]

Update: I don't want to speak too soon, but it looks like the situation may have resolved itself. For the last two days we've seen the neighbor boy go across the street to ask the other neighbor kids to play, and when they can't he just walks back home. My son has been out riding his bike both times and neither of them asked to play with the other. I hope it stays that way! Life is so much calmer now, and I don't feel like we need to avoid our front yard all summer.

[annaz]

We had the same problem. But I will no longer let dd play with them and she doesn't want to. We do have a neighbor day where we all get together, but it's sort of resolving itself as the rest of the kids are tiring of the bad seeds.

We don't invite the neighborhood kids any more as to not let anyone be kept out, we'll only invite ONE instead of the group to alleviate that issue. Thankfully, this bad seed is younger so we use it as an excuse.

[psreit]

"The next time they come down I plan to sit them down straight away and explain our rules to them kindly and calmly. If they still don't listen, then we will just simply say that they aren't welcome to play with our children anymore until they can learn manners and good behavior."

I think this is a very good way to deal with it, if they come back. We had few issues with neighbor kids when our older ones were young,but I would not tolerate behavior that influenced my dc in a bad way. My adopted dd goes to school (only 2 more days!!!). Even in a Christian school there are negative influences. We need to be very thankful that we can homeschool and choose to 'shelter' our dc from many negative influences Also, we get to give them a solid, Christian, character building education with HOD

[smithdonnajo]

On one occasion they came down to play, and without even discussing it with me their mother left to go grocery shopping.

This, coupled with their bad behavior, would cause me to not allow them to come play anymore. Something could happen while the she was at the grocery store, and you would have no way to contact her.

[momof4busyboys]

Goodness ... it is difficult to watch your chldren be hurt or upset. Like the rest of you, the mama bear comes out in me as well.

I've been a little hesitant in posting because my view may be a little different. I'll preface with my age (41), because I often think it influences how I think. If I offend, just keep moving through the words, but maybe something can be gleaned. Also, I must share that I have 4 boys (10, 7, 5, and 2) so that may make a big difference, although I do have girls in my yard as well.

Your children and your home are an INCREDIBLE MISSION FIELD. Our home is the house in the neighborhood where the children often gather. The kids are welcome, and they like having some place to go and hang out where there is a mom they can talk to. That's right ladies, I have 4th and 5th graders coming to my house because they aren't getting something they need at home. I'm not saying that is right, but I am happy to love on them. My yard is typically full of kids ranging from ages 13 all the way down to my 2-year-old, and it fills my heart when I see how all are treating and working with one another. Is everyday smooth and easy? No, I spend a lot of time teaching our home rules, refereeing, and "fussing" at the kids. The neighborhood parents know that I have no qualms about correcting their children, and so far it has not been an issue.

The children who are PS'ed have never learned to relate to children of different ages ... they've never been able to "socialize" out of their grade unless they come from a home full of children ... they have no idea how to treat little brothers and sisters, and tend to want to play "one-on-one". I have literally taught kids to play in a group setting (I call it the 3 or 4 muskateers depending on the situation), rather than always wanting to play one-on-one. My son (5) has a friend who only wanted to play with him at first, leaving out the other friend. I literally had to teach them to play as a group. I call this particular group of boys my THREE MUSKATEERS. It took some time and some work on my part, but now they all have a blast together. Sometimes, one of them wants to go play with the 10-year-old. That's cool too. My guys have been taught to play well with all ages. It is a major time investment, but I love the heart my children have when playing with (sometimes catering too ) a younger child.

I will say that last year I was exhausted and tired of having everyone in my yard all summer. I griped about it to a few friends, and then began to regret it. I got through the rough part, and now we are jamming. Please remember, THE KIDS WHO ARE UNLOVABLE ARE THE ONES WHO GENERALLY NEED TO BE LOVED THE MOST!!!! I have never had a child get mad and stomp off when I corrected/lectured them about how we treat one another in our home. I think they like the boundaries. And yes, Christ does enter into many of our conversations. I'm sure the day will come where an especially difficult child will move into the neighborhood and humble me (aka - bring me to my knees), but I wiill not give up on them because the children are my mission field.

Again, my situation is probably different, but think about what an incredible mission field you have in your own backyard, and don't take that lightly.

My prayers are for each of you in your struggles. If your situations have resolved, praise God. If not, look at it as an amazing outreach to the difficult children. They may not be loved the way your children are.

Many Blessings to each of you!!!

Kathy (North Carolina)

[birchbark]

Kathy, thank you for your post and for offering a "third option." I think the key is that you are right there, "teaching our home rules, refereeing, and 'fussing.'" You are protecting your children, ministering to others, and teaching your children how to interact with "the world" all at once. This is a great example of being not overcome with evil, but overcoming evil with good. I find it very inspiring that a busy homeschool mom is taking the time and energy to get involved. I have heard so many testimonies of people who first heard of Christ as a child from a mom in their neighborhood, and I am sure you are making an impact. I certainly will be thinking of this if (when ) we face this situation.

[MamaPajama]

Please remember, THE KIDS WHO ARE UNLOVABLE ARE THE ONES WHO GENERALLY NEED TO BE LOVED THE MOST!!!! I have never had a child get mad and stomp off when I corrected/lectured them about how we treat one another in our home. I think they like the boundaries. And yes, Christ does enter into many of our conversations.

While I agree with your first statement, I HAVE had these two children in particular (brother and sister) stomp off when I or my children ask them to stop a behavior. Then they come back 30 minutes later and act as if nothing happened and don't understand why my children are hesitant to play. I have also had to resort to having a conversation with their father about some of the physical behavior because every time I would turn my back, this little boy was right back at it. Since we've been personally supervising ALL of their play, this has not been an issue anymore. When I've had conversations with them about inappropriate behavior, most of the time there is no eye contact on their part, and many times they just hop on their bikes and ride away while I'm in mid-sentence. There is absolutely ZERO respect for their elders.

I think different people have different gifts. For some people it's the gift of relating to troubled children. I do not have that gift. If everyone gets along that's great. I love to love on my friends' kids. But I do not have the patience for others' children who are misbehaving. They have parents and I have other things to do with my day than to police all of them and make sure nobody gets hurt. My house would be in ruins, and so would my kids' emotions, I'm afraid. I believe I mentioned before that EVERY time these kids play together, my kids end up in tears. This is also not to mention what I already said earlier about their mother disappearing when they spend large amounts of time down here. That's disrespectful and dangerous.

As far as bringing Christ into the conversation, my son and daughter are very vocal about our beliefs and they have asked these other children why they don't go to church and such. My children have been made fun of for this, being told that God and church are stupid. I have told my children that they could invite these kids to our church to check it out if they'd like, but honestly I'm not willing to allow my kids to be put down in hopes of saving another child's soul. I pray about them and I do hope God will bring someone into their lives that will help them. I am not equipped to be that person and I'm not going to put that burden on myself, nor do I feel that God is putting that burden on me. Ultimately it is their decision alone to come to that place with Christ. My primary mission field right now is ministering to my own children. Furthermore, my kids are not old enough (4 and 6) to be expected to stand up to belittling or physically abusive behavior either.

It does sound like a vastly different situation on your end. You have older kids who are better equipped to manage their own relationships, and I've not heard you mention the types of behaviors we've had to deal with. Thanks for your input anyway. Maybe it spoke to someone else who's responded. (Sorry if my response seems harsh. It's not you. I'm just so tired of this situation that it's got me completely worn out. Quite honestly I wish we had the funds to just move. Also keep in mind that I'm pregnant and hormonal. )