New to HOD advice on placement/questions

[ckhunt]

Hello, We are a new homeschooling family with 2 girls ages 10 and 7 yr old. After lengthy review we have settled on HOD and would like to cover history/geography/science. Many other programs start with Ancient History which did not work well for our girls. We did a history co-op that covered Ancient History. It was a struggle to capture their attention as well as mom too!

Where do I place the girls? From the chart it appears my 7 yr old would be in Beyond Little Hearts for Glory and my 10 yr old Bigger Hearts for Glory. Any major differences in the history/science for these programs? We have not covered history except co-op because when we left public school both girls were behind in math/language arts. I'd hate to miss anything but I don't want to make it too easy on them either.

My other question is on the Drawn Into the Heart of Reading program. Is this a program for reading comprehension? I'm interested in it for my 10 yr old. We've had her read books at the library but I feel she needs more than simply just reading a book. When we left public school she did the Accelerated Reading (AR) program and was 3.1-3.4 level but I have no idea what her reading level is now? It's been over a year since we participated in AR. Is there a way to know what her reading level is before purchasing the program or a good starting point for most kids?

Thanks so much for the help.

Kristie

[MelInKansas]

Welcome to HOD! I'm sure you and your family will really enjoy HOD!

The placement chart is really your best guide as to where to place your children in the guides. That being said, it is difficult to do two back-to-back guides for a couple of reasons. First of all, Bigger Hearts and Preparing Hearts are the most time intensive for you as the teachers. So if you have two children in back-to-back guides you would spend one year with a lot on your plate and very full days. Now, if those are your only two children, it might be possible and it is only one year. Having each child where they fit might be worth it. The second reason it can be difficult is that you as the teacher are repeating the material 2 years in a row. Some have said they get burned out on it doing it twice in a row. Now, I am about to start round 3 of LHFHG with my 3rd born daughter and the first and second times through I learned a lot and I found ways to make it interesting or change up a few things (you can change the storytime pack for one thing which I have done).

As to "are Beyond and Bigger Hearts different" yes they are very different. They both study American History but Beyond is early American History and Bigger is later colonial history. The books are different and the things you study are different. The science in Bigger for example goes through some famous scientists in American history and that way you also study some of the things they discovered. I really enjoyed that.

Your children might not have enjoyed ancient history in their co op, but I bet you they will like it a LOT more with HOD. It is so hands-on and interesting and I love all the interaction I am having with my daughter. She is doing Preparing which is a broad overview of history so right now we are in the time of Christ and we are reading some Amazing books! But the Ancient history part is really interesting too, with fun activities and research topics that help bring the history to life. I also love how much Bible we are reading. It is woven in with the other history books to show how the Bible tells accurately what happened in history. I have a lot of the books for CTC (Creation to Christ) and they look like wonderful books too!

You say you are just planning to use HOD for History, Science, and Geography. Did you realize that it also covers art, poetry, spelling, music, and has grammar and reading options? In Preparing there is beginnings of writing. I hope you take advantage of the fact that all of these subjects are planned and woven into the study your children do. It is such a fun way to learn and so well-rounded! If you cut out the art projects or hands-on activities I think it would definitely lose something.

DITHOR is a wonderful literature study. It includes reading and challenges their reading level, but it also includes comprehension and analysis, learning story elements and genres and Bible passages and character traits. It's a wonderful study and really easy to use and easy to customize to whatever books you choose (though the HOD selections for each level are excellent and I would highly recommend them). You could try getting 1-2 books from one of the book packs and having your daughter read them and see if she can read them pretty easily. You would want books she can read fairly well on her own and vocabulary she is familiar with. But let her read a few pages and then put the books away because she is supposed to read them for the first time while doing DITHOR. The book packs HOD has developed increase gradually in difficulty. You can also choose your daughter's reading level but start her with the DITHOR 2/3 student book if she has never done literary analysis before. She may be able to complete more of the activities independently than a 2nd or 3rd grader, but it would provide a gentle introduction. The book projects you do with the books are so fun also, at least they were for my daughter.

[ckhunt]

I hadn't planned to do 2 guides with the girls. I wanted to combine them for History, Geography and Science. I was trying to figure out whether to select Beyond Little Hearts for Glory or Bigger Hearts for Glory. I don't want to skip Early American History but I have a 10 yr old so wasn't sure if Beyond Little Hearts for Glory was limiting her.

Can someone explain the extension packages?

We have selected other programs for math & language arts. I'd be happy to use the poetry, art and music from HOD. We may switch later but we are finishing up those programs right now since we started homeschooling in January.

Thanks for the advice on Drawn Into Heart of Reading.

Kristie

[Nealewill]

The extension package extends the learning for the older student. I do think that Beyond would be too easy for the 10 year old child but I also worry that Bigger hearts might be too difficult for the younger child.

For what it is worth, when I first looked at HOD, I also was in a position where I didn't intend to split my kids up do two different levels. I didn't fully understand how rich the curriculum itself was. I found HOD because I originally was had traditional educational products and was somewhat eclectic. Then I went with a different company who's education plan didn't quite line up as well with mine. That year, that curriculum had me combine my kids. Well, my kids were at very different levels and it made combining them fully very difficult. So I ended up leaving that curriculum to find HOD. Last year I completed Preparing and Beyond and it was the best year we ever had! My two younger kids did Beyond and they did their own math and spelling programs. My oldest also did everything in Preparing but did her own Spelling and Math (we used products different than what HOD recommended because my oldest has a lot of dyslexia tendencies). For me, I didn't realize that HOD was set up so well that my oldest could do SO much on her own. And not only did she do a ton on her own, but she learned more "skills" than I realized. It seems like each level gave them just the right volume of work that they should do. For me, that was fantastic! It baby steps them up to the next level. And each level gets more and more interesting. I agree with Melissa, my oldest is doing CTC this year and we are LOVING it! I also love that my oldest works very independently and that she does quite a bit on her own. My younger two this year are split up except my they do spelling together (my son is a little bit behind) and they do grammar together (my youngest is very advanced). But other than that, they are doing separate levels as well. For me, I never imagined doing separate levels with my kids and that it would actually be easier to do than to combine. And for us - we have gone round about using their math recommendations and spelling recommendations. Math and spelling with HOD are solid programs! But we are so far into our programs it would be hard to make a smooth transition. But the language arts box was a great fit for us and we use DITHOR, R&S and whatever writing they recommend. I really balances our day to schedule all of the programs I use according to their same time constraints and that is what I do - we spend about 10 min on spelling and 30 or so on math. You can also use your own language arts and math if you like and still follow HOD plans for everything else.

But back to the placement chart like Melissa recommended, you would want to see where the youngest child places. If the youngest child places in Beyond, then you probably wouldn't want to do that with a 10 year old. And at that point, I would start considering whether or not you would want to combine them. If the youngest places in Bigger, then combining them would be totally fine because the additonal extension pack books would significantly increase the learning for the older child. I will say though, those books do have some more challening vocabulary in them. So if your 10 year old child isn't a strong reader, then she may not be able to read all of those books. I think some of the books in Preparing were actually easier than some of the extension pack books for Bigger.

[MomtoJGJE]

Some of the books that are scheduled as Extension books in Bigger are core books in Res to Ref (10-12, roughly a 6th grade guide)... So if your child is not a strong reader they will be difficult.

I think, even though ancients was hard in a co-op setting, you'll find that it's really not bad in HOD.

My suggest for you would be to put your 10yo in Preparing as written (no extensions) and let her listen in on the American history for your 7yo (or she could even read the history to your 7yo!) The reason I say Preparing is because it's an overview of world history from creation to modern times. It's a fun guide to do and really cements in the timeline of history.

I think you'll also find that your day will run very smoothly with those two guides. Especially next year when you would be in CTC and Bigger!

[ckhunt]

I should have mentioned 2 dilemmas to placement. First, we have not covered ANY history so I don't want to push my 10 yr old to World History yet. Second, my oldest 10 yr old is Aspergers special needs. I don't know if this will determine placement because her weakness is more with writing and math.

Can I use Bigger Hearts for Glory and combine them? Is there a way to challenge my 10 yr old with the extension package?

I should explain that we moved 800 miles cross country last year. We lived with my parents last Fall and were not able to homeschool due to the environment. I had no say or control over them with my parents who did not fully understand or support homeschooling. So we had a late start this year in January and we spent a lot of time doing remedial work in phonics for my 7 yr old and math for my 10 yr old. Our family decided that the priority for our 10 yr old Asperger needed to be therapy with remediation for academics not pushing her forward with academics.

So we are behind and not quite fitting into the placement chart.

I'd rather combine them and go slowly and make sure we cover material without skipping ahead.

Any advice?

[Nealewill]

From what you shared about your 7 year old, I don't think Bigger would be the best placement for her. But if you think she could grow into those skills with in a few months, then you could always try it. You could also try Bigger this year and then if you felt like the 7 year old wasn't ready to move on, you could do Beyond the following year.

[ckhunt]

The 7 yr old would be in Beyond not Bigger Hearts for Glory and 10 yr old in Bigger Hearts for Glory.

I spoke with HOD and they suggested moving 7 yr old to Little Hearts for Glory. I'm torn she is between Little Hearts and Beyond Little Hearts. She is not fluently reading yet which is why I think she suggested Little Hearts for Glory. I guess I don't want to push her ahead but I need to get out of public school thinking that she is 2nd grade level.

If she progresses quickly, can you move forward in spelling and grammar instead of waiting for the next package level the following year?

Also, does anyone recommend Singapore math for a struggling math student. My 10 yr old has fallen behind and I've tried so many curriculums with her this past year. She knows some of her math facts (addition/subtraction). I told HOD I was going to continue to review those but move ahead with multiplication/division. I feel she can move forward while continuing to review addition/subtraction. Math U See, Right Start Math, Touch Dot Math and Reflex Math were used last year. I am REALLY starting to panic because she still can't tell time and count money well and she will be 11 years old next year.

Thank you all for the support and help. I am very excited to get started with HOD next Fall!

Kristie

[Kims]

I would agree about Little Hearts. And it is by far my favorite so far. You will love it.

[MelInKansas]

Might some of the math difficulty be switching around a lot? I'm sure she has her struggles and that is the main problem, but switching math curricula quickly like that I would think would only add to it. You may just need to pick one that works well for you and has a multi-sensory approach and just take it as slow as she needs to in order to get it. Do hands on activities around the house whenever you can. Singapore the way HOD has it is great because hands-on is planned in up to the 2B level. My DH also does activities with the children just around the house that cement their learning. I know Math U See tries to use manipulatives in order to make the learning stick too, but I don't know much else about it.

With spelling you can move ahead however fast you like, although some of the Spelling stuff isn't in the lower guides so you end up needing the other guide in order to get the words/plans for it. Grammar is pretty separate from the other activities also. Beyond has grammar written in on Day 5, and after that it's R&S grammar and you could move at any pace with that if you wanted to though it is very thorough and has lots of review and I couldn't see doing it any faster than one lesson a day.

Definitely don't push a child ahead of where they place. It will only cause frustration, and then as you keep moving up in the guides you either keep having to modify things so that they can do them, or drag them along in understanding of the materials. The guides are really easy to use when the child is well-placed in them. Doing Little Hearts with the younger one would free you up to do other things with that child too, whatever you and the child want to do. Or you could all do things like nature walks, field trips, etc. Really live it up and enjoy the Homeschool life.

Back to the idea of doing Preparing though with the older one, the overview of history might be a great thing to start off as the foundation. That would be only if you feel she could do that guide, if not, then you definitely want to look at Bigger, combining in Beyond, or something along those lines.

[ckhunt]

The oldest is doing Bigger Hearts and I feel comfortable with that placement.

I know we do need to stick to a math curriculum. It's hard though because I suspect she may have a learning disability (Dyscalculia). We did have her tested for learning disabilities and nothing appeared although most psychologists aren't as familiar with dyscalculia because there is no "true" test for it.

Math for my 10 year old is the one area that frankly is terrifying me. She will be 11 next year and has fallen so far behind. I know we need to go at her pace but when she can't read a clock or make change it makes me sad and worried that we need to find something that she responds to and jump in and plug along.

Any suggestions on math? I think Singapore is not the right fit for her.

[MelInKansas]

Are there any specialists you can consult? I don't think I could give advice on someone with that kind of a learning disability. Or since she doesn't test with anything they can find, you can't get into specialists to help you out?

I know I would be sad and frustrated in your shoes. It sounds like there is definitely something going on that's keeping her from being able to grasp those concepts.

[Nealewill]

I had not even thought about the youngest doing Little Hearts. I think bigger and little hearts is a great fit for you!

You could try Singapore but I don't know if it will be a good fit for you. And I am not sure what level you have started at with the other programs either. I personally ended up using RightStart for my oldest because she could not understand the concept of number. She is doing very well with math now. But previously she couldn't understand simple concepts like why 4+2=6. So she couldn't understand hardly anything about anything. It was very frustrating. We had seen RightStart at the convention. We bought it. The first level was pretty difficult for her (level b). But then once we finished that level, we moved on to the next and the next and the next. She can now do all multiplication, division, fraction, convert decimals to fractions to percentages and back again. She does these things well, fast and accurately. She is so math smart now it amazes me.

I did see that you tried RightStart as well and were frustrated. What I would do, I would get a math program that you pick and I would stick with it. Don't change it. Because if you are jumping around, there are always going to be things that she will struggle with. There are always going to be concepts she doesn't get. But by jumping, it causes a lot of confusion because never really understands their way of thinking. The great news is that with most programs, they will cover topics like time and money every year. So if she struggles this year, it won't be the only year she sees it. I also think that MUS has videos. But regardless, if she is struggling, something like MUS, RS, or Singapore are going help with understand. I know some parents like Saxon, CLE, and Teaching Textbooks because it has a lot more drills. But what ever you do, I would stick with it and not switch. And as a side note, the programs with more drills, you do every other problem (like all the evens or all the odds) because the are giving you 2 sets of problems essentially. This way if you child struggles through the first set, then they have a second set they can do again. Also, don't be afraid to start at a lower level. You need to get something she can start with be confident in that.

[Nealewill]

I had not even thought about the youngest doing Little Hearts. I think bigger and little hearts is a great fit for you!

You could try Singapore but I don't know if it will be a good fit for you. And I am not sure what level you have started at with the other programs either. I personally ended up using RightStart for my oldest because she could not understand the concept of number. She is doing very well with math now. But previously she couldn't understand simple concepts like why 4+2=6. So she couldn't understand hardly anything about anything. It was very frustrating. We had seen RightStart at the convention. We bought it. The first level was pretty difficult for her (level b). But then once we finished that level, we moved on to the next and the next and the next. She can now do all multiplication, division, fraction, convert decimals to fractions to percentages and back again. She does these things well, fast and accurately. She is so math smart now it amazes me.

I did see that you tried RightStart as well and were frustrated. What I would do, I would get a math program that you pick and I would stick with it. Don't change it. Because if you are jumping around, there are always going to be things that she will struggle with. There are always going to be concepts she doesn't get. But by jumping, it causes a lot of confusion because never really understands their way of thinking. The great news is that with most programs, they will cover topics like time and money every year. So if she struggles this year, it won't be the only year she sees it. I also think that MUS has videos. But regardless, if she is struggling, something like MUS, RS, or Singapore are going help with understand. I know some parents like Saxon, CLE, and Teaching Textbooks because it has a lot more drills. But what ever you do, I would stick with it and not switch. And as a side note, the programs with more drills, you do every other problem (like all the evens or all the odds) because the are giving you 2 sets of problems essentially. This way if you child struggles through the first set, then they have a second set they can do again. Also, don't be afraid to start at a lower level. You need to get something she can start with be confident in that.

[my3sons]

HI Kristie, and welcome to the HOD Board! The ladies are doing a wonderful job of helping you! I think Singapore Math 2A/2B with the hands-on activities in Bigger Hearts may be a good fit for your dd, as it will teach many concepts at a beginning level that dd will take much from (i.e. multiplication taught using hands-on manipulatives). However, another option may be to look at yourteacher.com. This is another math program HOD recommends for older students that has components for younger students as well.

In Christ,
Julie