Wants His Own Thing..

[mothermayi?]

My two oldest dc are in ctc as a 10 and 12 year old. My oldest no longer likes working in the same guide as his little brother bc ds10 is pretty advanced and gets things done much faster. They both placed in CTC when we began HOD late last year. What can I do to make my oldest feel like he has his own thing? He is doing his own math and composition. Everything else is combined. Btw, we have had lots of talks about this with ds12. He understands but really wants his own thing so he can shine academically. I hope this makes sense. Tia

[davisfam7]

Dear Mothermayi,
We have a similar situation with my 15 yo daughter and her 17 yo brother. My daughter has always worked several grades above her age and my older son has always struggled. They have always done the same level in school. My son used to get upset about this as well. We explained to him that from a financial point of view we just could not afford to have them do the same grade but two different curriculums. Also for my sanity, as I have five that were being homeschooled, it made it easier on me to have them combined because none of my other children were capable of being combined. This way I was teaching 4 different levels instead of 5. Now with my oldest graduated I am only doing 3 guides. One thing that really seemed to help us was pointing out the strengths my son did have. This kid is a hard worker and has a great work ethic. He loves hard manual labor and never complains about it. We have always tried to find working opportunities for him over the years starting at the age of 12. He has learned so many skills and has gained a lot of confidence. He is not academic, but he no longer fights me on school and at age 15 1/2 really started to own his education. It no longer bothers him that he and his sister do the same guide. They actually work really well together during school now. She helps him to understand things he may be struggling with. We also have pointed out some of his sisters "weaknesses" to him. Not in a negative way, but in a way to show that we are all different. His sister is extremely bright, has tested very gifted and excels in school when she is motivated. Herein lies her biggest struggle, she can be very unmotivated. She lacks his work ethics and can be lazy and carless with her stuff. She is forgetful and loses things all the time. In saying all that about her, she is still a great kid, but just wired VERY differently. So maybe pointing out their differences and helping your 12 yo capitalize on his strengths will make him less frustrated about sharing school with his younger sibling??

[mothermayi?]

Thanks for the reply. It looks like we have shared a very similar situation . We have done the things you mentioned and they were always helpful. It just seems like the "fix" is temporary and we have to revisit it from time to time. This is fine and we will continue. It is always fun to have each member of our family point out our own strengths and weaknesses. We always have a hearty laugh as we share these things . I just didn't know if there was a way to get my older one in his own guide. He is doing very well with CTC but it has been through lots of consistency and hard work, particularly with the oral and written narrations, as well as following directions. I definitely don't want him to skip anything because that has always proven an utter fail on mom's decision making . I expect more from my older kiddo than I do my ds10, so this has helped. I don't really know what else to do. They share lots of similar activities and sports and this is fine for them. The issue seems to be purely academic.

For those that began HOD with combined children, did you ever separate them into their own guide? If so, please share your experience. Thank you!

[8arrows]

My reasons for combining are very similar to those listed above. There is only one me. I know I simply can't handle too many guides with all the other logistics of running a large household. I simply reiterate this to the kids. They know mom can only do so much. Over all, the kids really enjoy covering the same time period. I did try to separate my oldest daughter out once. It was a huge failure! It was just too much for me to keep track of. I put them back together. I have my youngers grouped together as well. I listen to their oral narrations and read their written narrations separately. I do their check-up times separately. This has solved a lot of the comparison and also makes everyone more accountable. I just went to a conference. One of the speakers talked about kingdom building with siblings. He suggested having your children pray together without you sometimes, so it is their leading and not ours. He suggested that your siblings could have been put together in your home to work together to accomplish a kingdom purpose together. He also highlighted how the brother relationship illustrates the body of Christ, and if our sibling relationships are not done well, they damage that imagery. These are all aspects we are now working on in our home, and I think they have given the children a better picture to weigh their actions against. I can really see it benefitting the relationship between children in the same guide. It is harder to compare or be jealous of siblings you are praying for and working with for kingdom purposes. Those goals become more important. (Notice I said it was harder to compare, etc. I do not in anyway suggest that some of these steps eliminate sibling conflict. We are all sinners after all.) I do understand your points. My older daughter could write a novel about the strange places her brothers put the books they were sharing (but that is another topic we need to work on). We also have sibling duos where the younger child has caught or surpassed the elder. For English and math, I did just use different materials, but for history and science and piano, I did not.

[mothermayi?]

8arrows,

WOW! That is DEEP!! I'm going to print your post . Thanks for chiming in.

[Tiffini]

We are one of the few I've heard that did end up separating into two different guides. Here is why:
We started Bigger Hearts using extensions with my oldest in 5th grade and my twins in 3rd grade. We continued each year up until this past year with remaining combined. Looking back, I would have separated a bit earlier, but I was concerned about the high school guide coming up. So, this year, (after much prayer) we separated with my oldest (in 10th grade) doing the WG guide and my twins (in 8th grade) doing MtMM. It has worked very well for us.

My oldest had been showing signs for some time that she wanted to be doing her own thing. It worked so well when they were younger, but at some point, she wanted to be doing "high school" work not "junior high" work if that makes sense. I understand the reasons (many of which are very good) for keeping them together - and in fact those same reasons are why I resisted for so long. But my dd is ahead academically from my twins and she was capable of doing harder work. She started resenting school because she felt like she was kept behind and not allowed to just take off and do work she was capable of doing. She needed to feel that she was in high school and doing high school level work. And she has really thrived in doing that this year. In addition, I think it has helped my twins to have to do more of their own thinking now that she is not doing the work along with them and supplying more (and better) answers.

I know it is expensive and it was hard to purchase two upper level guides in the same year. But I know my twins will be using the material the following year and I'd have to buy it anyway - so it all works out in the end if you can come up with the initial money to invest. Yes, my days are very busy with all the different ages, but the older 3 do most of their work independently now so that I have more time with the Littles.

My kids are still together all day, every day, regardless of whether they are using the same program or not. It has actually helped their relationships this year to be separated - especially my two daughters. For us, separating was the right thing for my kids and my family. But every family is different and only you can tell, after much prayer, what will be the right course of action. I know God will provide wisdom and guidance as you ponder your choices.

[mothermayi?]

Thanks Tiffini! It looks like your kids are also about 2 years apart and they are in back to back guides. It sounds like it is working well . We decided to split our boys.

----edited to remove my perhaps not so bright idea


I would've started the boys in separate guides from the beginning but the idea of running more than one guide scared me. Now that we've completed half of CTC, I can see that it is doable for *me* .

Thanks again!

[8arrows]

Mothermayi, I understand wanting to separate the boys, but in your previous posts, you have indicated that the older boy was very well placed in CTC. I would strongly encourage not to switch someone who is well-placed. If you really need to separate, I would slow down the second son. Moving a child up can create long-term problems in the ease of use of HOD.

[mothermayi?]

Mothermayi, I understand wanting to separate the boys, but in your previous posts, you have indicated that the older boy was very well placed in CTC. I would strongly encourage not to switch someone who is well-placed. If you really need to separate, I would slow down the second son. Moving a child up can create long-term problems in the ease of use of HOD.

Thank you 8arrows for the reply . I see you have one in MTMM. Did your kiddo use Preparing? If so, can you tell me a little about it and your child's ability at the time of use? Pleeeaaassseee . I haven't bought RTR yet so placing my younger one in Preparing is still not totally out of the question. I am nervous that it won't be enough of a challenge for my younger one (ds10). If we use Preparing for him, I would not do the science because I'm sure it would be too easy. Ds10 learned the periodic table, chemical formulas, and atomic numbers of a ton of elements when he was 8. He LOVES math and science so I'm sure the science in Preparing would be too easy. So other than that, how is the rest of the guide? The books look amazing!

[8arrows]

Mothermayi, in answer to your question, I have three that are just finishing MTMM--6th, 7th, and 10th (12, 13, and just 16). They have been combined for many years, beefing the guides up for the eldest. They were in 2nd, 3rd, and 6th when they did Preparing, which just happens to be my favorite guide. They were 8, 9, and 11. It was easy but interesting for my oldest. I added some Igniting Your Writing for her, and she did one of the Apologia elementary guides for science along with her own math and English. I had her write more summaries as well. I still had three littler ones and two older ones, so my time was stretched. I am not one that enjoys multiple guides. It was spot on for the 9 year old, and I eased the 8 year old into the writing. If you back the 10 year old down, you might want to consider the extensions. Have you looked at samples of the Children's History of the World? I think that would give you a pretty good indicator of the skill level. Also, there are no established notebooking pages for Preparing like CTC. The children create their own.

[Gwenny]

What about keeping them in the same guide but they work completely independently? Buy them their own books. Do they do everything together right now?

[8arrows]

What about keeping them in the same guide but they work completely independently? Buy them their own books. Do they do everything together right now?
______
Now, that's an idea! This is somewhat what it looks like at my house (except I was too cheap to buy duplicates of everything). We also do history competitions (with questions I select from the reading and candy as prizes). However, with what you have shared, that does NOT seem like a good idea at your house.

[mothermayi?]

I prefer them to be separated but the is a good idea!

As for my older son's placement, I evaluated his notebook and he is writing more than required in CTC. He is also finishing school in about 3.5 to 4 hours and this includes language arts and math. How much more reading and writing is in RTR compared to CTC?

I looked at the sample of CHOW from Preparing for my younger one and it is far below his reading ability. He would feel like I'm dumbing him down. He really wants to keep the challenge that he has in CTC.

Another option would be to keep them where they are right now and do something else with my younger one next year so he can mature a bit for the quantity of writing required in RTR. Then, my oldest would also finish CTC and move into RTR as normally scheduled. My concern with this is my younger one would lose skills and not be much better off the following year when he went into RTR.

[my3sons]

I prefer them to be separated but the is a good idea!

As for my older son's placement, I evaluated his notebook and he is writing more than required in CTC. He is also finishing school in about 3.5 to 4 hours and this includes language arts and math. How much more reading and writing is in RTR compared to CTC?

I looked at the sample of CHOW from Preparing for my younger one and it is far below his reading ability. He would feel like I'm dumbing him down. He really wants to keep the challenge that he has in CTC.

Another option would be to keep them where they are right now and do something else with my younger one next year so he can mature a bit for the quantity of writing required in RTR. Then, my oldest would also finish CTC and move into RTR as normally scheduled. My concern with this is my younger one would lose skills and not be much better off the following year when he went into RTR.

I have a few quick questions - forgive me if these have been answered somewhere and I have somehow missed it! The reason I am asking these is to determine YOUR workload as a teacher right now, as well as how each are doing with CTC...

- How far are you into CTC?
- Is younger ds doing everything in CTC - all of the writing, reading, etc. - and therefore is well placed and ready to move on to RTR next year? Are both sons doing all of the writing required themselves, or are you needing to tweak that to be less for either or help either of them do any of the writing?
- Can they each follow the directions for projects, etc. in the CTC guide fairly independently, or are you having to step in and help either with that portion quite a bit (i.e. history projects, note booking assignments, etc,)?
- After evaluating older ds's notebook in CTC, where does he place best according to the placement chart now - RTR or RevtoRev?
- Can you take a look at the first week of plans for RTR and RevtoRev, especially the "I" and "S" boxes, and share your thoughts of how well each son will do with those?
- What levels of grammar, math, and DITHOR are each of them currently doing? Are you reading aloud anything to the boys right now in CTC, or are they reading it themselves silently and independently?

Links to first weeks of plans for each...
RTR's...
http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/rtr-we ... glance.pdf
RevtoRev's...
http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/Rev2Rev-first-week.pdf

Thank you!
In Christ,
Julie

[mothermayi?]

- How far are you into CTC?
- Is younger ds doing everything in CTC - all of the writing, reading, etc. - and therefore is well placed and ready to move on to RTR next year? Are both sons doing all of the writing required themselves, or are you needing to tweak that to be less for either or help either of them do any of the writing?
- Can they each follow the directions for projects, etc. in the CTC guide fairly independently, or are you having to step in and help either with that portion quite a bit (i.e. history projects, note booking assignments, etc,)?
- After evaluating older ds's notebook in CTC, where does he place best according to the placement chart now - RTR or RevtoRev?
- Can you take a look at the first week of plans for RTR and RevtoRev, especially the "I" and "S" boxes, and share your thoughts of how well each son will do with those?
- What levels of grammar, math, and DITHOR are each of them currently doing? Are you reading aloud anything to the boys right now in CTC, or are they reading it themselves silently and independently?

Links to first weeks of plans for each...
RTR's...
http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/rtr-we ... glance.pdf
RevtoRev's...
http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/Rev2Rev-first-week.pdf

Thank you!
In Christ,
Julie

1. We are in Unit 18 in CTC.

2. Both children are doing all of the writing and reading themselves. However, I make the writing assignments shorter for ds10. So he might only write 5 sentence narrations and copy 1 scripture verse instead of doing all of them. Ds10 does well with independent work and following directions.

3. They complete all of the independent boxes by themselves except the watercolor painting (we use the tutorial on this site and I help). We are using something else for science because we had started it before we began HOD. The science is teacher led. The notebooking is done independently. I help with the history project since it is semi-independent. How much of the S boxes should I help with? I could be doing too much of it .

4. According to the placement chart, my oldest now places in RTR. He would be fine with the writing. My youngest, ds10, would find it difficult to write all of the answers in the research box, science box, copywork, composition, written narrations for history, and studied dictation. He has the ideas and answers in his mind but it would be difficult to physically write it all each day.

5.-- Ds12 is using MUS Zeta. Ds10 is using Singapore 4A.
--English is Rod and Staff 4. Ds10 is going half speed per CTC manual. Ds12 is going full speed. Ds12 never diagrammed until switching to HOD/RS English so we chose level 4 instead of 5 for this reason.
--Ds 10 is in DITHR 4/5. Ds12 is in DITHR 6/7/8.

6. I am reading storytime aloud. We've been reading aloud since they were babies so I wanted to keep this up by reading the scheduled storytime books aloud.