Questions/Concern about Science and History

[faith0428]

We have been using HOD for 4 years (LHFHG through PHFHG). I have always been concerned that the science and history seem weak. I'm really not sure if they have retained or learned enough in these areas. Is this a valid concern or have others found it to be sufficient? I would love to come up with a way to quiz or test on the material, but not sure how to go about it. Any ideas?

Also, it seems like not very much has been taught up to this point regarding geography. I can remember in elementary learning terms like plateau, plains, canal, fjord, and many others that haven't been studied yet. Also, learning and labeling the states, capitals, state abbreviations, etc. And what about state history? Maybe some of this is coming up or maybe I should be supplementing?

If we continue with HOD, we will be using Creation to Christ in the Fall. I am very excited that Apologia Science is being used because I was already considering going that route in the fall. I do question them starting out in Zoology 3 based on the Apologia website recommending Zoology 1 & 2 being done first.

They say, "Zoology 3 covers the land animals created on the sixth day. There are so many animals to cover and so many concepts as well. Thus, there isn't space to review the foundational information found in Zoology 1 and Zoology 2, such as arthropods, crustaceans, reptiles, amphibians, mammals, animal classification and more. Information about the phylum should be known and understood while the student is learning of the animal class, order or family. All these foundational concepts are covered in both Zoology 1 and Zoology 2. It is recommended that you complete both Zoology 1 and Zoology 2 before moving on to Zoology 3."

Should I be concerned? I don't recall animal classification being taught up to this point in HOD.

Also, regarding history, will all the history books in the Economy Package for CTC be utilized in full, or are just parts of them used? I personally struggle with skipping around and not going straight through a book.

Wow, I know this post is a bit scattered, and I apologize. I have enjoyed so much of our journey with HOD and am not eager to change, but I do have some concerns. Hopefully someone can address some of them for me and give me assurance. Thank you!

[mrsrandolph]

I have used HOD with my 4 through Preparing, and I have to disagree. I think the History is STRONG. In fact that is one of the most impressive components (to me) of the guides.

The science in the lower guides is very general and light, but it does pick up in the later guides.

What, specifically, about the History do you find unappealing?

[Mom2Monkeys]

I agree...the history is SOLID. Complete. Amazing. And I'm learning things I didn't even learn through all my years of school including college and military. The science in the younger years is what it should be...exploratory! The level steps up and my daughter is having NO problems learning from Zoo 3 having never done Zoo 1&2. We are finding a level of enthusiasm I doubt she'd have had we been studying very similar things for 2 years prior, just different animal types. We've used HOD since she was in 2nd and she's finishing 5th now. She's just starting unit4 of CTC. I find everything in HOD to be more solid than anything I've seen...and the retention is tested daily with narrations and notebooking output and discussion and application and connections made between readings and the character studies within the BIble portion, and so much more. It's a deeper level of learning compared to the mile wide learning we're all used to. Just b/c another program covers MORE, doesn't mean the kids learn more. It means they hear more. But what did they actually retain from gobs of facts being thrown at them and covering gobs of books and long readings each day?? HOD is balanced and leads to retention and skill mastery. And the fun science in the start goes along perfectly with the CM way of gentle early years. It works. And it's awesome to see the fruits of it in later years.

[LynnH]

We started with Preparing and just finished with RTR and my ds is going to do Rev to Rev in the fall. I thought maybe I could give you a glimpse into how some of your concerns are addressed in the older guides. First just a statement that the history up through Preparing to me is initial exposure to important history topics. This gives dc some hooks to hang future knowledge on. I have seen this with my ds. The year of history overview in Preparing familiarized him with names and places so when he had them again in later years they meant something to him and he could then increase his knowledge of those people.

As far as Geography it really increases from CTC on up. You use the Map Trek CD's in CTC, RTR, Rev to Rev and MTMM. Almost every week they are mapping things that go along with the time period studied. In CTC you and your dc together will study the geography of the holy lands and the dc learn some of those terms through this study. They learn the rest of them when they do the book Child's Geography of the World vol. 1 in RTR. A full year 50 state study is done in Rev to Rev. An individual state study is done in MTMM.

You use the history spines fully in CTC. In RTR there are times you read a portion from one book and on the same day a portion from another book because they are on the same topic and tie in well together. For example they might read a few pages from The Story of the Middle Ages and then also a few pages in Famous Men of the Middle Ages. One book gives the background of the events and the other book highlights the people.

As for Science, I agree that the early years are to ignite the love of science. My ds has really learned to understand the scientific process and what it means to make a hypothesis and do a step by step drawing of your procedure. It is making him think. The science really picks up also in the later guides as they are ready to delve in to tougher topics. As for doing the Apologia Land Animals book before the other 2 that worked out fine for us. Carrie has you print the animal classification chart from the Apologia website on the first day and they make a notebooking page with it. This is really the only background you need to cover from the other 2 books. They do not tie in with each other in any other way. You use this book for the first 14 weeks I believe of CTC and yes you use it cover to cover. The only thing is that Carrie sometimes does her own experiments instead of theirs, because some of theirs are very difficult to obtain the materials.

I really feel like HOD is a very strong academic program. The skills really build on each other and the upper guides get quite challenging. Carrie moves into having them answer different types of questions that relate to Bloom's Taxonomy as they get to the age where that is appropriate. The written narrations get longer and longer and in RTR the dc start written narrations in science. I can easily tell if my dc is comprehending the material or not. I am also continually amazed at how he can throw in things that he has learned when we are watching a documentary on tv. I know I learned things for a test in history and then forgot them. In fact I tested out of American History in college and yet I know very little now. I am relearning it all by reading the history spines for each program. Those books make me feel very deprived as far as my education goes.

[Tmisek]

Hi April,

We have used HOD with my oldest from Beyond to Preparing. (She went to public school for Kindergarten and first grade). I really, really, really do think the programs are building such a strong foundation, a love of learning, and are very complete. In fact, when we are out and about and see or hear something that we have studied, my daughter is so excited and quick to point out that we learned about that in school! I went to public school myself, and I feel like I am learning history for the first time!

As far as geography terms, many were introduced in the guides. When we did Beyond and Bigger I actually made lists of the terms that were introduced and defined. My list for Beyond has 18 terms. Here are a few: continent, horizon, bay, canal, crag, etc. My list for Bigger also has 18 terms, such as equator, peninsula, isthmus, climate, plain, glacier, etc. You may want to go back to your guides from those years and look at the geography boxes. You would probably be surprised at what was learned! In fact, I probably would not have remembered myself, except that I wanted a list. (I like lists!) I think the geography has been perfect so far. I know there is a state study coming up, so I wouldn't think you would need to supplement. Actually, now that I think of it, last year in Bigger we did learn the states and abbreviations and capitols, and whether they were original colonies, Union or Confederate States...we made index cards.

I have been very pleased with HOD in every way, and I love that my kids love school (well, most days, anyway ) I am very pleased with their growth mentally and, more importantly, their growth of character, so I don't feel testing would tell me anything of importance. Hopefully you will have a peace about HOD because it truly is beautiful!

[faith0428]

Hi Tammy,

You are right about those geography terms. I should have made a list like you did. I'll do that in the future with my two youngest. I also remember the state abbreviations now that you mention it, but for some reason I just don't remember it being all the states. Maybe I just need to get better organized!

[deltagal]

Hi Tammy,

You are right about those geography terms. I should have made a list like you did. I'll do that in the future with my two youngest. I also remember the state abbreviations now that you mention it, but for some reason I just don't remember it being all the states. Maybe I just need to get better organized!

Hi April,

I think you've brought up something significant about HOD's methodology - everything is sooooo gentle in the way it is introduced that you can not realize you are hitting on the key concepts and terms regularly. This is why if one uses HOD they really risk missing something significant if they skip a box or activity. It's all there. I can't recall when I began to "clue" in to this, but when I did, I began to be more intentional about working all the boxes on a steady and regular basis. Although I've never made a list of all the concepts, I love the list pp's have shared! What an interesting thing to note. I personally have a great deal of confidence in the fact that HOD's got the bases covered.

[SouthernMrs]

Hello, I just wanted to take a minute to comment on the science part of your concerns. My oldest dd (14 yo finished RevTRev this year) took her first science class at a homeschool coop this year for 8th grade. All her previous years of science were as written with the HOD guides and we have never had any issues. Why did we choose to substitute science this year then? Well, my dd is a home-body and for personal reasons we decided it would be a good fit for her this year as she approaches high school age. Anyway, she went into this class of mostly 9th graders (she took Apologia Phy. Science for high school credit). The class met once a week, and she was given her assignments that were to be completed at home. Labs and demonstrations were done during the 1.5 hour class along with discussions. My dd was required to keep a lab notebook as well. She was told the format to set it up (including a table of contents and page numbers, etc...) Well, I have to say that my dd was one of the very few in that class who knew what to do with her lab notebook. She was to record each week's experiment by writing a materials list, procedure, results, and conclusion and optional drawings. Because she was so used to keeping a lab notebook with her HOD sciences, my dd's lab notebook was always complete and included drawings. Her teacher was very impressed with her lab notebook each week. I never had to tell her anything about writing in her lab book or doing any of her homework assignments. She answered the questions from her study guide and if there was any extra credit worksheets or labs, she loved doing them just in case she would need that cushion for her grade. Well, her lab notebook was always graded at 100+ each quarter of the school year and she finished the year with a high grade as well. I'm not necessarily bragging on my dd as much as I'm bragging on HOD. I feel HOD has prepared my dd nicely and next year she will be taking Biology at this same co-op. I have no worries if she will be prepared or not. Thank you Carrie and HOD!! I'm praising the Lord for you!

[holdinon]

Hello, I just wanted to take a minute to comment on the science part of your concerns. My oldest dd (14 yo finished RevTRev this year) took her first science class at a homeschool coop this year for 8th grade. All her previous years of science were as written with the HOD guides and we have never had any issues. Why did we choose to substitute science this year then? Well, my dd is a home-body and for personal reasons we decided it would be a good fit for her this year as she approaches high school age. Anyway, she went into this class of mostly 9th graders (she took Apologia Phy. Science for high school credit). The class met once a week, and she was given her assignments that were to be completed at home. Labs and demonstrations were done during the 1.5 hour class along with discussions. My dd was required to keep a lab notebook as well. She was told the format to set it up (including a table of contents and page numbers, etc...) Well, I have to say that my dd was one of the very few in that class who knew what to do with her lab notebook. She was to record each week's experiment by writing a materials list, procedure, results, and conclusion and optional drawings. Because she was so used to keeping a lab notebook with her HOD sciences, my dd's lab notebook was always complete and included drawings. Her teacher was very impressed with her lab notebook each week. I never had to tell her anything about writing in her lab book or doing any of her homework assignments. She answered the questions from her study guide and if there was any extra credit worksheets or labs, she loved doing them just in case she would need that cushion for her grade. Well, her lab notebook was always graded at 100+ each quarter of the school year and she finished the year with a high grade as well. I'm not necessarily bragging on my dd as much as I'm bragging on HOD. I feel HOD has prepared my dd nicely and next year she will be taking Biology at this same co-op. I have no worries if she will be prepared or not. Thank you Carrie and HOD!! I'm praising the Lord for you!

I wish there was a "like" button. I would use it here

[Kathleen]

I think you've brought up something significant about HOD's methodology - everything is sooooo gentle in the way it is introduced that you can not realize you are hitting on the key concepts and terms regularly. This is why if one uses HOD they really risk missing something significant if they skip a box or activity. It's all there. I can't recall when I began to "clue" in to this, but when I did, I began to be more intentional about working all the boxes on a steady and regular basis. Although I've never made a list of all the concepts, I love the list pp's have shared! What an interesting thing to note. I personally have a great deal of confidence in the fact that HOD's got the bases covered.

I was thinking the same thing as you, Florence, as I read here! There really is a reason for each and every thing that Carrie includes in the guides.

April, I also wanted to mention, that although you may have noticed that your daughters' learning has seemed enjoyable and natural, that doesn't mean that they are not learning enough. I think it's the beauty of the way Carrie has written the guides and used the CM method. There is an incredible amount of content included in both the history and science areas, and if you are doing exactly what the guides say to do, you are also evaluating your students on a higher level than most worksheets or one-right-answer-tests do. Having seen the progression of the guides in our home, I absolutely LOVE the way that Carrie covers all the academics in such a balanced way.

I hope that you're encouraged as you read these posts! I know that my family is sold on HOD not only for its Biblical approach to life and learning, but also for the excellence and balance that's there in the academics, too.

(And as a side note...my daughter and I are just finishing Snow Treasure for our adventure book in Bigger, and she has most definitely learned what a fjord is as we've made the perilous trip down the Norway mountains with gold with the children. )

Kathleen

[MomtoJGJE]

Another thing to remember is, at least here, formal history is not started until 4th grade with state history... it might be 5th? but I'm thinking 4th. Which means for my kids (the years we are on) in HOD they've had LHTH, LHFHG, Beyond, Bigger, and Preparing history before they would have started ANY history at all in public school... at least. And if it's 5th grade then they also have CTC.

I think the history is very solid. I do think the science is easy, but it's all retained, which makes a big difference. The geography is also not in depth, but it goes along with whatever else they are learning, so it also is retained. We are a more scientifically minded family though, so we do add in extra things like science experiments and discussions, museum/zoo trips, and talk about science and math at all times.

[faith0428]

Thank you all for your responses. They are all very encouraging. Through them, I can see areas where I can/should do things a little differently on my end. I also admit I have nothing to compare/contrast to since we have only ever used HOD and I don't know what the public schools are doing. While academics are definitely important and a concern, my biggest goal in homeschooling is to strengthen and encourage in my children a love for the Lord, which is why I have always been so drawn to HOD. When I was originally trying to determine curriculum for our first year of homeschooling 4 years ago, the peace God gave me with using HOD was unmistakable. I am at a place now where I am trying to determine if God is leading me to go a different direction or if the questions/concerns I have are just my own doubts and fears getting in the way. I will continue to pray about next year and seek God's peace with what to do. Thank you all for your time and willingness to shed light on this for me.